The Singles' weekend - Part 3, Conclusion (finally)

Sorry I haven’t been posting that frequently.

I know all of my (what are we up to now? 7? 8?) loyal readers wake up early in the morning to see what wisdom has been posted here. I will try to be more consistent.

Anyway, let’s finish up this Shabbaton.

So, the Saturday night activity was speed dating. Contrary to the commenter to the previous post, speed dating is really not my thing. I feel that after a whole Shabbos of mingling and round robins, everyone has had enough time to interact with the people that they want to without having every single person shoved into their faces. I also think it’s cute that the shadchanim go around the room as well. I did find it easier to talk to a shadchan for 90 seconds than a girl though. I have to admit, I didn’t stay for the whole adventure, which seemed to exhaust everyone. The speed dating didn’t wrap up until midnight!

Then, we proceeded to yet ANOTHER mingling session, the Melave Malka. I think at this point, most people were just too tuckered out to really get anything going, although I did notice a few couples getting their talk on. Somehow I still managed to go to bed at 2 AM (I know, I’m talented.)

Sunday morning brought a pretty decent breakfast (food wise that is) and some leftover sleep-deprived (you guessed it…) mingling. Then, we went home.

The end.

Bottom line, I think the Shabbaton was a great event, even if I didn’t find anyone personally. It was a great networking opportunity for all. Unfortunately, some guys did more business networking than the kind they were supposed to be doing. At the least, Klal Yisroel got 10,000 first dates out of the way.

I really think it’s important, though, for girls to feel they have the same power as guys for at least one weekend. During the Shabbaton, there were no lists, no checking things out for weeks on end, just guys and girls naturally (as natural as Frum guys/girls can be) interacting. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see a few engagements from this event a couple of months from now.

So, I had a good time and am pleased that I went, even though the girls there were not for me (I think, unless I’m just being closed minded :- )

I would encourage available guys to go on the next one (whenever that is.) I hope I don’t have to go (again), but even if I’m available, I don’t think I can be a “three-peater.” We’ll see.

Maybe next time we can delve into the secret process of how guys actually choose which pretty, funny, smart girl to go out with off of their long lists of pretty, funny, smart girls…

Happy Tryptophan Day

Happy Tryptophan Day to all!

Yes, I had turkey (with all the trimmings).
I am Modox after all.
I recommend reading this to summarize all the Shitos regarding today.

http://www.tfdixie.com/special/thanksg.htm

It sounds to me that turkey is fine as long as you don't sing Thanksgiving zemiros and where a hat or anything like that.

Moving on, I know that the last post sounded a little sad, but this really is a crisis.
I really think that attitudes have to be changed.

I'm still planning on finishing the series on the Shabbaton some time this weekend, but let me just say one quick thing.
The saturday night activity on the Shabbaton was speed dating, and it's just not my thing.
I think we created enough initial contact between the round robins and all the mingling "sessions" on Shabbos that a formal meeting of Every Single Girl was not necessary.

I'll have more on this over the weekend.

For now, Good Shabbos to all.

Answers anyone?

Before we finish the series on the singles' weekend, something else came to me.
I've been reading a blog by a 34 year old Orthodox woman who has never been married.
http://shomernegiah.blogspot.com
Some of her writing just wants to make me cry. Her pain and frustration is real. I mean, I'm only 23!
Who am I to be writing about the Shidduch Crisis?

I mean this woman has a real fear that she will never get married. That is just terrible.

I really think the only way to fix this problem is by changing the mindsets of everyone involved.

Parents.

Guys.

Girls.

Rebbeim.

Everyone.

Again, i don't profess to have the answers, but something has to give.
In my opinion, solving the Jewish world's problems (and boy are there many) begins with creating wholesome loving Jewish homes.

There has to be an answer.

I'm listening...

The Singles' Weekend - Part 2b, Friday night con'd

First, to respond to my anon commenter- I appreciate the good thoughts. I think that at this time, the best way to start to solve the SC is by people changing their thinking about how shidduch dating has to occur. I think if people would maybe take a little bit of a more relaxed attitude, it would go along way. Obviously the point of going out in the Frum world is to find a suitable marriage partner, but that kind of thinking is just a little too heavy for a first date in my opinion. People should just try to have a good time with their date for the first date or two, and then see where it goes. As shidduch daters’ mindsets change, things just might get a little easier. That and sending all parent off to a remote island for a year or two ;-)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Where were we?

Oh yeah, the Round Robins!

I personally am a big fan of round robins. The way the Shabbaton folks executed these were to have all participants go to their original tables after dinner. They then had all the guys from a table move to the next one while the girls and their designated couple stayed put. Each table was given 3-4 min to introduce themselves, and then a question was posed to the room for discussion. Each table had about 6-7 min total, then the guys rotated throughout the dining room. The whole process took two seperate hour and a half sessions.

I think this is a very good way for everyone to meet everyone. The seven minutes gives everyone enough time to articulate their opinions and create a little interaction between the groups. The only problem is that the interaction is very dependant on the specific groups of guys that are formed. I was lucky to be with a fun group, so we just went around table-to-table having a good time. The problem is if you have one or two dominant players and one or two quiet ones, sometimes the quiet guys / girls can get shut out. That’s why the success of a round robin is also very dependant on the married couples manning the tables. When a question posed to the room is uninteresting, it’s their job to come up with a different topic of discussion. When a quiet guy / girl is not getting involved, it’s their job to involve him / her.

I think overall the couples did a pretty good job of accomplishing those two goals; some were obviously better than the others.

Ok then, so the round robins were a success. We then moved on to informal “mingling.”
In my opinion, the most important factor for a successful “mingling session” is the layout of the room. And this particular lay out worked very well. There was a big area for guys and girls just milling about, but it was right next to the dining room itself. This created a natural flow to things. If a guy and girl wanted to couple off, they could just walk over a few feet and sit at a table without feeling they had left everyone else. This helped to alleviate the pressure of talking to someone “right away” on Friday night.

Mingling wrapped up at around 2 AM (no, this was not the week to catch up on your sleep!) I personally didn’t hit it off with any girls on Friday night, but I had whom to talk to (guys and girls).

Davening in the morning was pretty uneventful (good breakfast before hand; that’s how you can tell who’s REALLY religious or not – by the tally at breakfast). We then moved on to Kiddush and finished off the round robins from the night before.

After lunch came…The Shabbos Walks

Stay tuned.

Good Shabbos to all.

Don't worry, the juicy stuff is coming soon

Happy lunchtime to all my (5? 6?) loyal readers.

I now realize that I won't be able to post every day, but I hope I'll be able to post at least 3-4 times a week.

Anyway, I know you're all waiting for the sordid details from last week's Shabbaton; they're coming soon.

Up next will be the round robins (yea!), then the rest of the Shabbos.

Hopefully next week we'll be able to get back down to business and solve the SC all by our selves. Wouldn't that make for a great book someday - how a blogger and his (5? 6? 7?!) loyal readers solved one of the biggest crises to have ever occurred in the known history of the world.

Again, sordid details coming shortly.

The Singles' Weekend - Part 2a, Friday night

So where were we?

Oh yeah, Friday night.

After everyone checked in (which was not an easy task as Shabbos was 4:30 and most people didn’t arrive until 3:45 because of, you know, JOBS) and got ready for Shabbos (“is this tie going to get me the girls or this one? This one? Ok, let’s go daven now”), we headed down to the makeshift shul. I don’t really think there was much equality going on there, because the women’s side had much more room; so much so that men just started drifting there not to look at girls, but just so they could breathe.

Then came dinner. The tables were pre-arranged based on a number of qualifiers. Four girls and four guys per table.

Were you expecting any more qualifiers than that? Sorry.

Anyway, each table had a designated couple for “facilitating”, which is a good idea. We had a nice meal and everyone went around the table introducing themselves. The organizers of the event even borrowed a long-standing UWS tradition and put a kind of game on the table so that everyone could get involved. Not as personal as a traditional UWS game (“if you were an animal, what kind would you be?”), but it got people talking.

We then had a pretty good shiur about, you know, dating, then moved on to the main event of the weekend – the round robins!

More to come soon – I know, I know, the wait is killing me too.

The Singles' Weekend - Part 1

Yes. I went to a singles weekend this past Shabbos.

I’m not really that old or desperate, but I figured it would be a good experience. And despite not really coming away with any solid dating prospects, I think I accomplished my goal.

Before we get into the nitty gritty details of the Shabbaton, I just want to open with my general impressions.

One of the biggest reasons for the current SC (in my opinion) is that guys and girls don’t have realistic views on dating and what to expect out of potential marriage partners. I will deal with all of the girls’ problems in a different post; but let’s talk about the guys’ problems for a second.

I think one of the biggest problems with guys and dating is the list. If you’re a “frum” guy and you haven’t been arrested for at least a year, you probably have a list of 20 – 30 beautiful size 2 “ST/OT/PT” s that you can go out with. This instills a false sense of entitlement in a guy. Guys go out looking to only do one thing – not “settling”.
I think this is a very unhealthy way to approach dating, and I’m a guy.

That’s why I think the best part of the Shabbaton is that there is a 1:1 guy: girl ratio. That atmosphere returns the dating world to the “natural order” – guys chasing after girls. Maybe I’m just a hopeless romantic, but I think that dating should be all about a guy “winning the heart” of a girl, and that’s just not going to happen if a guy with his list just walks around with a certain sense of entitlement all day. That’s why I give a lot of credit to all the guys who went; it wasn’t because they were desperate, it was because they felt they needed to do some chasing for a change.

Another benefit of the Shabbaton was the potential amount of bad first dates it saved. Think about it…100 guys times 100 girls equals 10,000 initial meetings!
Not that every one of the participants would go out with each other normally, but people certainly saved a lot of time on future dates which would have gone nowhere. And I think the participants (mostly) had the right approach. This kind of an event really can’t turn personal. You go over and talk to someone of the opposite gender for a few minutes; if there’s something there, the two of you can go somewhere quiet to talk. If not, you just move on, no hard feelings. The problem is that it can turn a little too business-like. Additionally, looks play too big of a role at a Shabbaton like this. The only thing most people end up doing at this kind of event is make a first impression – so the pressure is on to make a good one. It sounds like I’ve just contradicted myself, I know, but I think that overall, the experience I had was positive and I really think much good will come out of this past weekend.

So much for the introduction…next time a real recap and maybe some good stories ;-)

Don't worry, on second thought, there aren't that many good guys after all

I want to answer some of the insightful comments to the previous post.

First of all, whether you want to believe me or not, there was a typo in the previous post. I meant to say that there are more good girls than good guys. I think that changes things a little. That being the case, let’s address some of the comments.

To answer the first anon – I don’t have specific data to back up my assertion that there are more good girls than good guys (although it’s a study I would really like to do someday). This is just something I’ve observed. Anecdotally, I notice that all my male friends have lists of girls without trying, and my sister/cousins/their friends have to ask around to find a date. Last time I was just trying to find a reason for that.
Secondly, we can quibble on my specific calculations, but I think the point is still valid. Remember, I only gave the poor guy Five hours a night for sleep!
Any number in my calculation below that one feels is inflated can just re-asses it to the guy’s sleep time and the calculation makes sense.

Now, I’m not trying to say that it’s easier being a good girl than a good guy, just that maybe girls are slightly unrealistic in their expectations. It’s hard for every guy to be pulling in a decent salary and become a Talmud Chacham (I don’t even want to touch the learning for a few years after marriage thing yet).

This is clearly from a guy’s perspective, but it just seems that all girls want the same tachlis functionality in a guy (i.e., everything) and the only difference in what their looking for lies in the esoteric (hashkafa and what not). I think girls need to realize that not all guys are cut out for everything. Some guys are meant to sit and learn (although that number is far less then what one currently sees). Some guys are super chesed guys. Some guys just want to become rich so they can support someone else’s learning. I am not, however, saying that guys don’t have a daily obligation to learn (I think they do), but there are different levels for different people.

And to anon 2 – I need to blog just to get my thoughts out. Don’t worry, my blogging comes out of my “personal” 50 minutes a day, not my learning time ;-)

I pretty much agree with everything that Bigsister said; despite the fact that it all started out based on a typo in my post. There really are a lot of guys and girls out there in the shidduch world who probably aren’t ready to start dating. They feel they have to though, because otherwise they think they’ll just get lost in the shuffle if they wait a few years to date. That’s a discussion for another time though.

Good news is I am going to be solving all of the world’s shidduch problems this Shabbos, as I will be going to a Single’s Weekend!

Yes, you heard right, a SINGLE’S WEEKEND!!!

There will be a full report coming up next week.

For now, I just want to leave you with a Posuk from this week’s Parsha which I feel is one of the most important Pisukim in the Torah, especially for the marriage minded out there,

12 And G-d said unto Abraham: 'Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah saith unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall seed be called to thee.

Guys – just listen to what the women have to say, it’s practically a Mitzvah ;-)

Good Shabbos to all

Whose fault is it really?

The guys or the girls?

As my commenter kingnimrod1 claims, girls are not of the marriage mind set. Even if this were true, would that help solve the SC?

It seems to me that guys don’t have a problem committing; girls do. If girls decided to stop taking guys for “a ride” and commit earlier in the dating process that would just take guys off the market quicker. Then there would be even fewer guys for the thousands of Great Girls out there to pin their hopes on. Unfortunately, it really does seem to be a numbers issue. Every year, another class of girls graduate from seminary who are “ready” and willing to date; guys don’t follow suit until at least two years later.

Girls get “older”, guys get “more seasoned”.

I know, I know, you’ve all heard this before.

So what’s the solution?

Recently, there’s been a movement (if you will) encouraging guys to date / marry older girls. This is not a bad idea, but it doesn’t solve the real problem.

There just seems to be more “good” girls than “good” guys.

I think the root of that problem lies with the definition of a “good” guy and a “good” girl.

Take any random girl off of the street in front of Stern or Touro and ask her what she’s looking for in a husband. She’ll most likely respond the following:

“Well, he should have a good parnassa but he should also be Machshiv Torah, but he should also care about our (future) family, but he should also be very Chesed Oriented, but he should also have time to spend with his parents and mine, and in general, just be A Good Boy, you know?”

OK, now let’s do some math.

1. Work = 45 hours/week (if you’re lucky and Hashem loves you)
2. Commuting 2 hours a day * 5 = 10 hours/week
3. Two hours night seder * 6 days a week = 12 hours/week
4. Minyan 2 hours a day * 6 days a week = 12 hours/week
5. Five hours/week for chessed
6. Two hours/week for your parents and five hours/week for hers = seven hours/week
7. Oh yeah, Shabbos = 25 hours/week
8. Two hours a day for your wife * 6 days a week = 12 hours/week
9. One hour a day for your kids * 6 days a week = 6 hours/week
10. Maybe 50 min a day for personal things (like eating and going to the bathroom) * 6 days a week = 5 hours/week
11. Oh yeah, SLEEP! How about 5 hours a night * 6 days = 30 hours/week

Total hours in a week = 168
Total hours needed per week to be a Good Boy = 169

So now I’m thinking, maybe the SC problems begin with the definitions?

And one more thing before we get going...

A few more introductory remarks.

I am not here to share personal stories about my dating life. I want to raise issues on dating that I feel are important and hopefully spur healthy debate in the comments. If anyone is interested in sharing a good dating story, my friend just started a site for that specific purpose. Check it out on the sidebar. I've also linked to Only Simchas on the sidebar, because at the end of the day, that's what this is all about, right? ;-)

I think things here should stay as anonymous as possible. I really hope we can get both the male and female perspective on these issues. Therefore, I will allow anonymous comments, but please feel free to identify yourself as guy or gal if you so choose.

The SC, and I don't mean South California

Well, I’ve got my first “thought”.

Let’s talk about the Shidduch Crisis.

As some of you know, I refer to the Jewish Press as the “Shidduch Press.”
The paper does have a few pieces on Israel and Torah and whatnot, but its main thrust is clearly discussion on the Shidduch Crisis. Let’s face it; any crisis makes for good copy, and the Shidduch Crisis (I think we’re going to start calling it SC from now on) is as good a crisis as any other to hook in readers.

Most Friday nights, after the rest of my family is finished with the paper, I jump immediately into the middle of the Shidduch Press. There we find various experts taking letters from readers lamenting how they’re child is the poster child for the SC.

The problem is, that despite experts tackling this issue week after week, we’re still in the crisis. I’m not saying I have a solution, mind you, I’m just saying…

We’ll leave the “Shadchan” magazine (yes there actually is such a thing, I have it in my house) for another time.

My question is, who actually is in this crisis?

Is it just young adults of the female persuasion, or are guys in it too?

Even if guys don’t have problems getting dates, they still have to go out with the girls who live with the SC over their heads daily; maybe that’s how they get affected?

And now for my big thought…

To paraphrase an economic term I heard somewhere, “A recession is when your neighbor is out of a job, a depression is when you’re out of a job.”

Does this mean if you’re sister can’t get a date, it’s a shidduch crisis; but if you’re friend’s sister can’t get a date, it’s only a shidduch “problem”?

Welcome

Hi. I'm a Shidduch dater.

I've been in the proverbial "Parsha" since this past February.

Since then, I’ve had a lot of thoughts and opinions on shidduch dating which I’ve been sharing with anyone willing to listen to me.

This is what I’ll be doing here.

This is not, nor will it become, my personal profile.

I am going to try to be as objective as possible, although my past dating experiences have greatly shaped my views on this topic.

I have a lot of stuff I want to say right away, but then this blog will be done with in a week.

Commenting is encouraged, but please play nice.

Welcome to Modern Orthodox Machmir Blog.

More to come shortly