Just Orthodox?
Finally, I’ve been able to engage SOMEONE in conversation on this site, even if they choose to remain anonymous.
While I think it’s an ideal that everyone claims could work, is it possible nowadays to be “just Orthodox”?
No Yeshivish, no MO, no Chardal, no left or right, nothing but try your best to be Shomer Torah U’Mitzvos?
Or have we moved so far into craziness (especially in the Shidduch world) where everyone now has to be SOMETHING?
I don’t know, so I’m just leaving it out there.
Good Shabbos to all.
While I think it’s an ideal that everyone claims could work, is it possible nowadays to be “just Orthodox”?
No Yeshivish, no MO, no Chardal, no left or right, nothing but try your best to be Shomer Torah U’Mitzvos?
Or have we moved so far into craziness (especially in the Shidduch world) where everyone now has to be SOMETHING?
I don’t know, so I’m just leaving it out there.
Good Shabbos to all.
posted by MoDox Machmir Man at 9:29 AM
10 Comments:
I beginning to feel the same...like why can't we all just be frum. I find that we get so steeped into 'fitting in' to a certain sect that we lose site of what it's all supposed to really mean. We should just do the best we can to be the best Jew we can be...period.
so true.. and instead of asking "is he yeshivish? is he MO?" we shoudl ask other things like "is he passionate about his learning? is torah his number 1 priority? what are his middos like? how does he spend his free time? what is he involved in?"
i think that says MUCH more about a person than "he is yeshivish,"etc.
(i know i seem hypocritical bc of my name but thats just a little play on modox machmir man...)
Here's a question for you, modox man- im assuming youre a dating man now.. how do you get dates? Do you go to events, meet people, or get set up on shidduch dates by friends, parents friends, random strangers?
first of all, thank you for picking a name, charedi-ish girl.
I agree that there probably was no MO or Yeshivish 30 years ago as we see it today.
let's get to your three points. first, I don't think that charedi and Yeshivish have to "shtim exclusively" ;-)
I want to ask you a question, and I would appreciate an honest answer. let's say you check out a guy and his yeris shamayim and machshiv torah levels check out. so you agree to go out with him and he shows up at the door wearing a short sleeve blue shirt and srugi. how would you feel?
third, to answer your last question, all of the above. I've gone to singles weekends (as anyone whose read the beginning of this blog would know) and I've let friends, parent's friends, and random people set me up. I've yet to see that any one way gets me a better prospect than the other.
ok so you ask an intriguing question. and the truth is, that its not the first time ive heard it, and ive even posed it myself to friends of my own. honestly, i dont think that in this crazy jewish world we live in, that your scenario would be possible. as i said before, i HATE labels.. BUT:
at the end of the day, most of the time, a guy who will show up for a date in a polo shirt and srugi will not be what i personally am looking for. the way you present yourself and what you wear really tells alot about you (if you were a girl you would be very familiar with this idea, mainly that the laws of tznius outline the way you are presenting yourself to the world..) the way you dress is a big indicator of who you are, whetehr you are a guy or girl.. it is the first thing that people take away from an interaction with you- it is their first impression. imagine r moshe feinstein walking around in jeans and a polo. it just wouldnt happen. why not? what do you think?
on one hand- are jeans and polos bad?? is there something inherently wrong with them? If you wear them are you a bad person? OF COURSE NOT. but the way that jewish society today is set up is so that most people dress in a way that will associate them to a certain group.
does a hat make you frum? does wearing black and white make you shtark? does wearing a long pleated skirt and cardigan make you a frum girl? no way. not a chance. i know plenty of guys who wear black hats likavod shabbos and are nowehre NEAR yeshivish.. but most of the time, in this day and age, the way someone dresses really can tell a lot about their personality, their hashkafa and who they are. we use dress to express ourselves and to read into other people- whether this is a good or bad thing is another issue entirely... but it definitely is a fact of jewish societal life nowadays.
so bottom line, to answer your question- how would i feel in that situation (that i still feel is impossible bc of all that ive said)? i would be intrigued and curious and somewhat confused perhaps .. i would go out with the guy, try to have a good time and see if the way he is dressing is really indicative of who he is... bc at the end of the day, no matter what, i think it is important to be somewhat openminded and at least give things a try if they seem pretty good, even if theres one thing youre not sure about.
how would you feel if you checked out a girl who seemed really great, really smart, fun, kind, pretty, very serious about her torah learning and her commitment to judaism, but showed up on the date wearing a short sleeve shirt and a long skirt? would that bother you at all?
I think what you’re saying is fair. That’s basically the point, though. Nowadays, there really is no escaping labels and “being put into a box” despite the protests of well meaning individuals.
In response to your question, if her sleeves are not covering her elbow, now we’re getting into a Halachic issue, not Hashkafic. A girl not covering her elbows is a matter of Halacha, while a srugi can be deemed a matter of halacha (unless you are aware of the inyan to always have a double head covering, which is why I believe the velvet yarmulke came into practice in the first place).
you are correct that the type of kippa you wear is not a halachic issue... additionally i recently found out that wearing a kippa is actually itself just a minhag! so it really DOES not matter halachically which type you wear..
however back to the other point- some feel that sleeves are a hashkafic issue... and they differ on their opinion on what the minimum acceptable halacha is.
some people hold that you only need to wear sleeves that REACH the elbow.. but that the elbow itself doesnt need to be covered, bc they say the elbow isnt part of the zroah. what about that? others hold that it needs to be always fully covered.. this is a machlokes of what the actual halacha is. so there can be a girl who wears a sleeve that reaches but is above her elbow and she feel s that she is completely following halacha..
shes most porbably going to be very very different than a girl who feels that the elbow must be completely covered.
Touché
i dont really get what you mean in this context.. but ok
My two cents... I think we have a nice little shidduch between Big Sister and Modox Machmir Man... What do you guys think? Do I get the shadchanut gift?
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