Just Orthodox? Part II

I’m just going to take a swing at this and see what happens. These definitions are from Google (sources at bottom of quote):

"Definitions of orthodox on the Web:
· of or pertaining to or characteristic of Judaism; "Orthodox Judaism"
· adhering to what is commonly accepted; "an orthodox view of the world"
· of or relating to or characteristic of the Eastern Orthodox Church
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn"

"· The word orthodoxy, from the Greek ortho ('right', 'correct') and doxa ('thought', 'teaching'), is typically used to refer to the correct theological or doctrinal observance of religion, as determined by some overseeing body. The term did not conventially exist with any degree of formality (in the sense in which it is now used) prior to the advent of Christianity in the Greek-speaking world, though the word does occasionally show up in ancient literature in other, somewhat similar contexts. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox"


So, Orthodox means, “correct thought”. As seen in the next definition, correct according to whom:

"From the Greek "ortho", which means straight or correct and "dox", meaning belief or opinion, orthodox refers to the approved form of a philosophy, ideology, doctrine, religion, and so on. Belief or opinion that does not conform to orthodoxy is labeled HERESY (from Greek for choice or to choose). For a seeker, the word orthodox raises the question, "Approved by whom?", and the word heresy, "Am I bound by the disapproval of others?"
www.zoofence.com/define05.html"

One more:

"term to describe traditional Judaism. Politically, they subdivide into ultra-Orthodox (often non-Zionist or anti-Zionist) and "national religious" (Zionist with modernist modifications in clothing etc)
mondediplo.com/1998/02/16israelglo"

OK, one more (this one is key):

"That which is consistent with correct doctrine and practice as established by the authority of Scripture.
www.dtl.org/trinity/misc/glossary.htm"

So, it appears that Orthodoxy begins with Scripture (i.e., Torah). The next question is who defines “correct” after what is mandated by Scripture?

Next, Machmir means stringent, and we know what modern means. The obvious question is, do the terms modern and machmir cancel each other out, leaving us with just Orthodox, or do modern and machmir refer to different aspects of life that can be synchronized together in harmony?

Darned if I know that answer…

I think the problem is that Ultra-Orthodox consider themselves “Just Orthodox” and MO consider themselves “Just Orthodox”. This stems from the problem of just who is the governing body within Orthodox Judaism that is defining the “correct” way.

Now how does this relate to dating?

Who knows?

To be continued…

Just Orthodox?

Finally, I’ve been able to engage SOMEONE in conversation on this site, even if they choose to remain anonymous.

While I think it’s an ideal that everyone claims could work, is it possible nowadays to be “just Orthodox”?

No Yeshivish, no MO, no Chardal, no left or right, nothing but try your best to be Shomer Torah U’Mitzvos?

Or have we moved so far into craziness (especially in the Shidduch world) where everyone now has to be SOMETHING?

I don’t know, so I’m just leaving it out there.

Good Shabbos to all.

Halacha VS Hashkafa Part II

I’ve reconsidered my position on Hashkafa vs. Halacha.

While I still think that a lot of Hashkafic debates are really Halachic issues, I no longer think it’s as simple as saying a husband and wife can respectfully disagree and move on.
The fact that there can be an argument whether TV EVEN IS a Halachic OR Hashkafic issue already signifies how deeply the two platforms are intertwined. Depending on where one falls on the Orthodoxy spectrum, a lot of “non-major” Jewish issues can be categorized as either Halachic or Hashkafic in nature. For some, every decision made in life is an issue of Daas Torah, for others, everyday matters are “lifestyle choices” and only major decisions are consulted on with a Rav. So, if you have a guy who considers TV as a lifestyle choice and a girl who considers it Assur L’Halacha, obviously there’s going to be a divide there, which is not easily overcome. I still think that mutual respect can overcome a significant number of issues, but I think the couple must at least be on the same wavelength. Maybe if a couple can get to the point of agreeing WHICH issues are Halachic and WHICH are Hashkafic, then they have something to work with.

Somewhat tangentially, I think this is probably the biggest defining factor between Yeshivish and MO. Yeshivish people (generally) think that almost all decisions in life are Halachic ones that would require consultation with a Rav (even whom to vote for in an election for some). MO, on the other hand, think that as long as one is going through life with the proper outlook, a Rav is not need for all decisions, just major ones where an answer is not readily found.

I think the “Daas Torah” conundrum is a separate issue from the above; one on which I’m not yet ready to theorize on.

Incidentally, I’m starting to think that before I go on a first date with a girl, I should just tell her to read my blog to know beforehand if she can put up with me or not ;-)

Mazel Tovs all around

Went to another wedding last night.
Two in two weeks – that’s a lot for me and my (still) achy body ;-)
This one was also a Shidduch – great to see the system working. I also went to a L’Chaim this past week of a couple that went about it the “other” way – they met at an event and he asked her out.

Shocking, I know.

So, at this wedding last night, they had…wait for it…

MIXED SEATING!!!

And you know what, I think it’s a good idea.
Because it was mixed seating, I had the opportunity to speak to a nice young lady who I wouldn’t have heard about otherwise. Whether anything ever happens between anyone at the wedding last night, it’s just seems to be a good opportunity for all involved. Everyone looks nice, is in a good mood, and has marriage on their minds. Sounds like a great time to talk to girls.

I think I want to restructure my Halacha/Hashkafa argument, but we’ll save that for the weekend.

Good Shabbos to all.

Keep those buzzwords coming

There are a few more (lengthy) pieces I had in mind, mostly concerning Yeshivish VS MO dating practices.

How long should a couple go out before they “know”?

How much checking is too much?

What the heck are MO and Yeshivish anyway?

For now, I’d like to see if I can get the Halacha VS Hashkafa debate going in the comments to the post below.

Crash and Burn, you’re cordially invited to join the conversation
;-)

Buzzwords Galore

I’m getting to the definition of MO Machmir soon. But first another great buzzword that’s on my mind.

Hashkafa.

Quite the buzz word, eh?

Why does everyone concern themselves with a person’s Hashkafa as opposed to his middos? Or personality? Or height for goodness sakes? You know, height is important too (a little at least).

I think it’s the same reason my sister and I get into hashkafic debates all the time (she’s Yeshivish [another buzzword, great] and I’m MO [see the title of this blog]). I think we both want to get to the “truth.” In the end of the day we respect each other, though, and know that each other is a good person. That’s the whole point of Eilu V’ Eilu. So why is that enough for a brother/sister relationship and not a husband/wife?
Is it because you have to live together forever (hopefully)?
Is it because you want to raise children together with your set of values?
So why isn’t being a good person and having mutual respect for each other’s Hashkafa’s enough? As long as the husband and wife see eye to eye on a certain set of halachic parameters, I would argue that it could be just as beneficial to raising children that they see that their father and mother can get along and respect each other even if they don’t agree on all hashkafic (and political, sociological, etc.) issues. I think that could be a much healthier way to raise kids as opposed to having two parents agreeing on everything. That would just be too boring.
To me, agreeing on Hashkafa is just the cream on top. What should be most important is whether the dating (and eventual marriage) partner is a good person and will take care of you and have respect for you. That includes your opinions on anything and everything (as long as they are well thought out and don’t go against the aforementioned Halachic parameters that the two of you agree on).
Does that seem so crazy?

Didn’t think so.


Comments?

Still Achey

Went to a wedding last night, which I'm pretty sure was made by an actual shidduch.
Doesn't it just give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside when a shidduch results in a marriage ;-)

Anywho, I don't think I agree with the (lengthy) comment from the post below, but I'm still too tired from all the dancing to write a meaningful answer.

Be back soon.

Man, dancing really takes alot out of you. I think this means this I need to start working out some more :-)

On compensation II

It’s been a while.

Already at my age (early 20’s) the New Year’s ball drop is so passé that I didn’t even watch it. Also, this holiday is pretty religious in nature. If Christmas is Jesus’ B-day, count to eight and New Year’s is his Bris. That’s why I felt I should shy away from this holiday. I still enjoyed my day off from work, though! Conversely, that’s also why I have no problem celebrating a secular holiday like Thanksgiving the only way I know how (by eating a lot).

Anyway, I want to thank Ariella of the great Kallah Magazine blog for linking to my post on Shidduch compensation. Because of her, my readership went up nearly ten-fold in one day! I guess that kind of shows that I didn’t have much readership to begin with. Ahh well. This just means that I have to think for 30 seconds now before I publish something as opposed to my original 10 ;-)

Hopefully, I can continue to write semi – intelligent stuff around here and keep some of my new readers. I didn’t start this blog to commiserate with other young 20’s single guys. I can do that very well offline, thank you. I started this blog to get my thoughts out on the current Shidduch situation and hopefully start some dialogue here in the comments.

With regards to the compensation issue, while I do agree that the shadchanim should be compensated adequately for all their work, this situation is different than real estate or head hunting because of the emotions involved. I was just saying before that the emotions must be taken into consideration. This also applies to the future machatanim engaging in heated financial discussions before the engagement/wedding. Obviously these things have to be taken care of, but having a couple start their new life together with a bitter taste in their mouths because of financial “discussions” is just not the way to go. One way to help solve this issue is to have things hammered out early on (i.e., before the engagement). Maybe (some of the – I don’t want to be accused of stereotyping) Yeshivish world is right when they discuss specific finances before even agreeing to a first date. Somehow, though, that just makes things seem too businesslike.

As with everything else in life, some sort of balance must be struck between too early and too late.

Be darned if I know that balance.

If I did, don’t you think I’d be writing a book about it ;-)

Next up, the definition of MoDox Machmir. Yay!