Modern Orthodox Machmir Blog

I may be coming back

2008-03-06T15:48:00.002-05:00

That last post has been sitting there for over a year. And frankly, it's kind of weak.

I may be coming back; not sure yet...

BTW, the nice young lady I met at the wedding...I married her.

Cheers.

Just Orthodox? Part II

2007-01-24T17:39:00.000-05:00

I’m just going to take a swing at this and see what happens. These definitions are from Google (sources at bottom of quote):

"Definitions of orthodox on the Web:
· of or pertaining to or characteristic of Judaism; "Orthodox Judaism"
· adhering to what is commonly accepted; "an orthodox view of the world"
· of or relating to or characteristic of the Eastern Orthodox Church
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn"

"· The word orthodoxy, from the Greek ortho ('right', 'correct') and doxa ('thought', 'teaching'), is typically used to refer to the correct theological or doctrinal observance of religion, as determined by some overseeing body. The term did not conventially exist with any degree of formality (in the sense in which it is now used) prior to the advent of Christianity in the Greek-speaking world, though the word does occasionally show up in ancient literature in other, somewhat similar contexts. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox"

So, Orthodox means, “correct thought”. As seen in the next definition, correct according to whom:

"From the Greek "ortho", which means straight or correct and "dox", meaning belief or opinion, orthodox refers to the approved form of a philosophy, ideology, doctrine, religion, and so on. Belief or opinion that does not conform to orthodoxy is labeled HERESY (from Greek for choice or to choose). For a seeker, the word orthodox raises the question, "Approved by whom?", and the word heresy, "Am I bound by the disapproval of others?"
www.zoofence.com/define05.html"

One more:

"term to describe traditional Judaism. Politically, they subdivide into ultra-Orthodox (often non-Zionist or anti-Zionist) and "national religious" (Zionist with modernist modifications in clothing etc)
mondediplo.com/1998/02/16israelglo"

OK, one more (this one is key):

"That which is consistent with correct doctrine and practice as established by the authority of Scripture.
www.dtl.org/trinity/misc/glossary.htm"

So, it appears that Orthodoxy begins with Scripture (i.e., Torah). The next question is who defines “correct” after what is mandated by Scripture?

Next, Machmir means stringent, and we know what modern means. The obvious question is, do the terms modern and machmir cancel each other out, leaving us with just Orthodox, or do modern and machmir refer to different aspects of life that can be synchronized together in harmony?

Darned if I know that answer…

I think the problem is that Ultra-Orthodox consider themselves “Just Orthodox” and MO consider themselves “Just Orthodox”. This stems from the problem of just who is the governing body within Orthodox Judaism that is defining the “correct” way.

Now how does this relate to dating?

Who knows?

To be continued…

Just Orthodox?

2007-01-19T09:29:00.000-05:00

Finally, I’ve been able to engage SOMEONE in conversation on this site, even if they choose to remain anonymous.

While I think it’s an ideal that everyone claims could work, is it possible nowadays to be “just Orthodox”?

No Yeshivish, no MO, no Chardal, no left or right, nothing but try your best to be Shomer Torah U’Mitzvos?

Or have we moved so far into craziness (especially in the Shidduch world) where everyone now has to be SOMETHING?

I don’t know, so I’m just leaving it out there.

Good Shabbos to all.

Halacha VS Hashkafa Part II

2007-01-16T17:34:00.000-05:00

I’ve reconsidered my position on Hashkafa vs. Halacha.

While I still think that a lot of Hashkafic debates are really Halachic issues, I no longer think it’s as simple as saying a husband and wife can respectfully disagree and move on.
The fact that there can be an argument whether TV EVEN IS a Halachic OR Hashkafic issue already signifies how deeply the two platforms are intertwined. Depending on where one falls on the Orthodoxy spectrum, a lot of “non-major” Jewish issues can be categorized as either Halachic or Hashkafic in nature. For some, every decision made in life is an issue of Daas Torah, for others, everyday matters are “lifestyle choices” and only major decisions are consulted on with a Rav. So, if you have a guy who considers TV as a lifestyle choice and a girl who considers it Assur L’Halacha, obviously there’s going to be a divide there, which is not easily overcome. I still think that mutual respect can overcome a significant number of issues, but I think the couple must at least be on the same wavelength. Maybe if a couple can get to the point of agreeing WHICH issues are Halachic and WHICH are Hashkafic, then they have something to work with.

Somewhat tangentially, I think this is probably the biggest defining factor between Yeshivish and MO. Yeshivish people (generally) think that almost all decisions in life are Halachic ones that would require consultation with a Rav (even whom to vote for in an election for some). MO, on the other hand, think that as long as one is going through life with the proper outlook, a Rav is not need for all decisions, just major ones where an answer is not readily found.

I think the “Daas Torah” conundrum is a separate issue from the above; one on which I’m not yet ready to theorize on.

Incidentally, I’m starting to think that before I go on a first date with a girl, I should just tell her to read my blog to know beforehand if she can put up with me or not ;-)

Mazel Tovs all around

2007-01-12T13:42:00.000-05:00

Went to another wedding last night.
Two in two weeks – that’s a lot for me and my (still) achy body ;-)
This one was also a Shidduch – great to see the system working. I also went to a L’Chaim this past week of a couple that went about it the “other” way – they met at an event and he asked her out.

Shocking, I know.

So, at this wedding last night, they had…wait for it…

MIXED SEATING!!!

And you know what, I think it’s a good idea.
Because it was mixed seating, I had the opportunity to speak to a nice young lady who I wouldn’t have heard about otherwise. Whether anything ever happens between anyone at the wedding last night, it’s just seems to be a good opportunity for all involved. Everyone looks nice, is in a good mood, and has marriage on their minds. Sounds like a great time to talk to girls.

I think I want to restructure my Halacha/Hashkafa argument, but we’ll save that for the weekend.

Good Shabbos to all.

Keep those buzzwords coming

2007-01-09T17:21:00.000-05:00

There are a few more (lengthy) pieces I had in mind, mostly concerning Yeshivish VS MO dating practices.

How long should a couple go out before they “know”?

How much checking is too much?

What the heck are MO and Yeshivish anyway?

For now, I’d like to see if I can get the Halacha VS Hashkafa debate going in the comments to the post below.

Crash and Burn, you’re cordially invited to join the conversation
;-)

Buzzwords Galore

2007-01-07T21:42:00.000-05:00

I’m getting to the definition of MO Machmir soon. But first another great buzzword that’s on my mind.

Hashkafa.

Quite the buzz word, eh?

Why does everyone concern themselves with a person’s Hashkafa as opposed to his middos? Or personality? Or height for goodness sakes? You know, height is important too (a little at least).

I think it’s the same reason my sister and I get into hashkafic debates all the time (she’s Yeshivish [another buzzword, great] and I’m MO [see the title of this blog]). I think we both want to get to the “truth.” In the end of the day we respect each other, though, and know that each other is a good person. That’s the whole point of Eilu V’ Eilu. So why is that enough for a brother/sister relationship and not a husband/wife?
Is it because you have to live together forever (hopefully)?
Is it because you want to raise children together with your set of values?
So why isn’t being a good person and having mutual respect for each other’s Hashkafa’s enough? As long as the husband and wife see eye to eye on a certain set of halachic parameters, I would argue that it could be just as beneficial to raising children that they see that their father and mother can get along and respect each other even if they don’t agree on all hashkafic (and political, sociological, etc.) issues. I think that could be a much healthier way to raise kids as opposed to having two parents agreeing on everything. That would just be too boring.
To me, agreeing on Hashkafa is just the cream on top. What should be most important is whether the dating (and eventual marriage) partner is a good person and will take care of you and have respect for you. That includes your opinions on anything and everything (as long as they are well thought out and don’t go against the aforementioned Halachic parameters that the two of you agree on).
Does that seem so crazy?

Didn’t think so.

Comments?

Still Achey

2007-01-04T17:34:00.000-05:00

Went to a wedding last night, which I'm pretty sure was made by an actual shidduch.
Doesn't it just give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside when a shidduch results in a marriage ;-)

Anywho, I don't think I agree with the (lengthy) comment from the post below, but I'm still too tired from all the dancing to write a meaningful answer.

Be back soon.

Man, dancing really takes alot out of you. I think this means this I need to start working out some more :-)

On compensation II

2007-01-02T16:53:00.000-05:00

It’s been a while.

Already at my age (early 20’s) the New Year’s ball drop is so passé that I didn’t even watch it. Also, this holiday is pretty religious in nature. If Christmas is Jesus’ B-day, count to eight and New Year’s is his Bris. That’s why I felt I should shy away from this holiday. I still enjoyed my day off from work, though! Conversely, that’s also why I have no problem celebrating a secular holiday like Thanksgiving the only way I know how (by eating a lot).

Anyway, I want to thank Ariella of the great Kallah Magazine blog for linking to my post on Shidduch compensation. Because of her, my readership went up nearly ten-fold in one day! I guess that kind of shows that I didn’t have much readership to begin with. Ahh well. This just means that I have to think for 30 seconds now before I publish something as opposed to my original 10 ;-)

Hopefully, I can continue to write semi – intelligent stuff around here and keep some of my new readers. I didn’t start this blog to commiserate with other young 20’s single guys. I can do that very well offline, thank you. I started this blog to get my thoughts out on the current Shidduch situation and hopefully start some dialogue here in the comments.

With regards to the compensation issue, while I do agree that the shadchanim should be compensated adequately for all their work, this situation is different than real estate or head hunting because of the emotions involved. I was just saying before that the emotions must be taken into consideration. This also applies to the future machatanim engaging in heated financial discussions before the engagement/wedding. Obviously these things have to be taken care of, but having a couple start their new life together with a bitter taste in their mouths because of financial “discussions” is just not the way to go. One way to help solve this issue is to have things hammered out early on (i.e., before the engagement). Maybe (some of the – I don’t want to be accused of stereotyping) Yeshivish world is right when they discuss specific finances before even agreeing to a first date. Somehow, though, that just makes things seem too businesslike.

As with everything else in life, some sort of balance must be struck between too early and too late.

Be darned if I know that balance.

If I did, don’t you think I’d be writing a book about it ;-)

Next up, the definition of MoDox Machmir. Yay!

On compensation

2006-12-26T16:15:00.000-05:00

I’ve heard about the Baltimore Shadchan incentive program ($2,500 to the shadchan of a consummated shidduch involving a Baltimore area girl), and now, apparently, Queens has one too. I understand that it’s necessary in Baltimore, where girls just don’t get that much exposure, but you would think that Queens is a large enough area for natural networking to be done.

I’m really not trying to sound negative here. I understand that making a shidduch is hard work and the shadchan should most certainly be compensated for his/her efforts; in fact, I’m pretty sure it’s a Halacha (not sure where though). But if you read that Queens sight and all the nitty-gritty rules, I don’t know, it just seems to take all the “romance” out of dating. Looking at the bottom rule, if I were a betting man, I would bet that there have been quite a few Beis Dinim convened to determine who gets paid on a Shidduch. That just seems wrong. Again, I’m not saying people don’t need that incentive; it just leaves me with a bad feeling after reading all those rules.

Don’t worry; I’ll have a more fun post up next.

Wow

2006-12-21T13:42:00.000-05:00

Stop reading Shidduch books and read this.

Now.

If you have time, read the whole thing. It might take a while.

I'm not so sure that single people should be reading this, though. Not because it is inappropriate, but because it really makes you want to get a girlfriend/boyfriend NOW just to see if that level of emotion and feeling are even possible. If I fall in love with my (future) wife like Robert Avrech has been in love with his for over 27 years, I will be a lucky man.

I just don't know how one can achieve that level from Shidduch dating people. Assuming such a level exists and he's not just romanticizing the whole story. Even if he is romanticizing a little, it's still beautiful. That’s why I feel strongly about the whole “modern orthodox” way of building a relationship over time versus getting engaged after a week. That will obviously be a longer discussion for a different time.

But just quickly:

It’s not really fair of me to make this into an MO vs. Yeshivish issue; it’s not. You can be Yeshivish and still take time to build a relationship with a girl. And I have no problem (not that anyone cares) with couples getting engaged very quickly if things make sense. But you will not convince me that a couple that has known each other for a few weeks (plus a short engagement) will walk down to the Chupa with the same feelings and emotions than a couple that walks down after being through more with each other, if nothing else than time. Relationships take time to build. Obviously for Frum people, most of the building occurs after marriage, but I feel there should be a significant foundation on which to build.

Maybe we’ll continue this over the weekend.

Now go read Robert Avrech.

Now.

Yes, I'm still around

2006-12-20T12:24:00.000-05:00

I know I haven't posted in a while, but I still have some thoughts to share.

Not right now, though. Hopefully over the long weekend (I can't write tomorrow as I have a wedding to go to - you see, people actually DO get married!)

For now, I want to leave you with a good article from Aish.com.

Happy Chanuka to all.

Be back soon.

Look what I can do Ma

2006-12-14T12:16:00.000-05:00

I've finally learned how to create links.
I know, it's not that difficult, so sue me.

Anyway, I want to use this new found skill to point you all towards a post in the Kallah magazine blog about the SC.

I agree with her take much more than the post on Cross-Currents.

Be back later with more commentary.

Keep on keepin on

2006-12-11T16:50:00.000-05:00

I guess I never did continue the discussion over the weekend - blame it on laundry.

I've been scouring the blogging world for a current Frum dating blog written by a single mid-20's guy, which is better than mine. I haven't found it.

Therefore, I feel I do serve a purpose and will continue writing.
(I don't mean to sound overly confident or anything - I couldn't find ANY other current Frum dating blog written by a single mid-20's guy.)

There does seem to be a few from 2004-5, when I believe the J-blogosphere really took off. Ahh well, better late than never.

So, back to this leap of faith thing.
Obviously, I haven't taken it yet, but on a personal level, I would like to think I’d be ready when the opportunity presents itself. The fact of the matter is there are a whole bunch of guys and girls (http://mydatewascrazy.blogspot.com/2006/12/lead-me-on.html) who are dating just because they don't want to "fall behind."
While I think that that is a justifiable way of thinking, more has to be done so as to avoid leading on the other party. (Girls, you'd be surprised how many guys would agree to go out with you even if you said you were just getting started Shidduch dating and were "practicing" - whether this is Halachically acceptable is a different discussion.)

I'm not so sure I believe in that parenthetical statement, but I'll leave it in there anyway.

On the other hand, maybe if a Frum 23 year old girl wasn't considered "over-the-hill", there would be less of a problem.

Does anyone really believe that a 19 year old girl who has just returned from an intense year of Seminary, having been out of her parent's house for a year and with a whole bunch of ideas in her brain that have to be sorted out, is ready for marriage?

This may sound cruel, but trust me; guys know how to fool girls. They know what a girl wants to hear right after she gets off the plane, and they know how to say it.
Now, I'm not saying that what was learned in Yeshiva/Seminary is just "flipping out" and the individual must force themselves to readjust to the "real world", but there should be some time allowed to process everything.

You can have the noblest intentions in the world, but someone still has to pay the electric bill.

Now this all is very dependant on what kind of relationship you’re looking for. Not to say which one is better (yet, at least), but a couple who get engaged after a week of “hotel-lobbying” will have a different relationship upon marriage than a couple who dated for a significantly longer period. I think part of the problem is that a lot of the more moderate returning Seminary girls get lumped into the “hotel-lobbying” crowd even though that may not be the best for them. If you’re Shomer, it’s not easy to date someone for a long time. But, if you decide that you’re ready to get engaged sooner than you would’ve expected based on your religious and social outlook, then you also have to be prepared to take a bigger leap and be satisfied with a different kind of initial relationship upon marriage than you were hoping for. I think that balance (or lack thereof) is quite possibly the root of the rest of the problems the Shidduch dating world is facing.

Ok, I think I’m even giving MYSELF a headache, so let’s leave it at that for now…

Quick shout out

2006-12-07T17:57:00.000-05:00

Just wanted to drop a quick line, as I don’t know if I’ll be able to post again before Shabbos.

Continuing from last time, it’s my opinion that there is no one correct philosophy with regards to Frum shidduch dating. As with all things in life, everything should be dealt with in moderation. Just like it’s an extreme to get engaged after two “sit-ins” with her parents, a frum couple probably shouldn’t date for three years just to make sure EVERYTHING makes sense. Walking down that aisle will always be a leap of faith; the question just is, how big of a leap do you want to take?

I want to continue this discussion over the weekend, but for now let’s leave it open to (the here to fore non-existent) comments.

Thoughts on a slow Monday

2006-12-04T17:37:00.000-05:00

Happy Monday to all.

Hope everyone did something interesting over the weekend.

For those who care, today’s been a real drag; one of those “is it Friday yet?” days.

Anyway, back to shidduch dating.

There are quite a few topics I want to get to in length, but for today, I’ll take the easy way out and comment on other peoples’ ideas.

First, that blogging friend of mine keeps churning them out. I believe we’ve already mentioned http://greatdateplaces.blogspot.com/, and on it he has a new post on the dating black hole that is the state of New Nersey. Now I happen to be a big fan of New Jersey in general ( I just can’t imagine driving in a state where there are signs that are actually helpful), but there really is not much to do there on a Frum Shidduch date. I actually think that Target or Ikea make good dating places if you happen to go out with a girl from NJ. Target, incidentally, is one of the coolest stores ever. You can literally buy a suit, mp3 player, toilet seat cover, and a box of cereal in ONE trip. How awesome is that?!

I think the point though is that the company you keep is more important than where you actually go. If two people are interested in each other, they really can have fun doing anything. You can have a great time with a date at a grocery store or a terrible time at Hershey Park (really, the grocery store can be a lot of fun). Now, I am not advocating doing generic things on a date, certainly not in the early stages of the courtship. A guy really should put some effort into finding an interesting place to take a date. The point is that if you can’t (eventually) have fun doing “ordinary” things with a date, then maybe he/she just isn’t for you.

And when I say ordinary, I don’t mean a hotel lobby. I think it just puts too much pressure on both sides to sit a total stranger down in a formal setting like a lobby and say, “talk.”
You should be doing SOMETHING. But then again, I AM Modern Orthodox ;-)

One could retort, “what about Starbucks, eh? That’s just talking?” (no, I’m not Canadian, I just like saying “eh?”). Well, at Starbucks, at least there’s interesting music in the background and a choice of drink has to be made. One could spin off into a whole conversation about the different types of coffee that are offered or choice of background music (which of course could lead to a much more in depth conversation about non-Jewish music in general). That’s better than a stiff hotel lobby in my opinion. To me, when the ONLY thing to do in a place is talk, the date just becomes too formal.

On another note, apparently I am so inspiring in my commentary on the SC that I already have my first “break-away.” The link is http://helpsolvethecrisis.blogspot.com/ if you haven’t already seen it in the comments section. I assume the author is a girl (master of the obvious, I am). It’s a shame that she already has a bad taste in her mouth about the whole Shidduch system. I certainly understand the opinion that it was better back in the day when people just met naturally. But, it should be known that there are still 50-year-old singles on the UWS who believe that the shidduch system is a bunch of baloney. I’m not sure that any particular system really is the answer; it may just be necessary to borrow from all types of Frum dating philosophies to get the right mix.

I’ll let that percolate for a while so we can have something to talk about next time.

A few links and Good Shabbos

2006-12-01T13:09:00.000-05:00

Just wanted to drop a few links on you before Shabbos.

My friend who created the venerable blog mydatewascrazy.blogspot.com has created yet another masterful commentary on the dating world.

http://greatdateplaces.blogspot.com/

This one is very useful, as it has, well, a list of great date places.
Now girls, if your man takes you to one of these great spots, don't think of him as unoriginal; rather, be happy that he cares about you enough to do extensive research to find a dating place that he feels can adequately express his appreciation of you. Wow, that was a long sentence.

Also, on the aforementioned mydatewascrazy is a very interesting post, which must have surely been written by a girl -

http://mydatewascrazy.blogspot.com/2006/12/guys-101.html

Read it over there and maybe we'll discuss it over here next week.

Good luck to anyone who has a date over the weekend.

Good Shabbos to all.

The Singles' weekend - Part 3, Conclusion (finally)

2006-11-28T17:39:00.000-05:00

Sorry I haven’t been posting that frequently.

I know all of my (what are we up to now? 7? 8?) loyal readers wake up early in the morning to see what wisdom has been posted here. I will try to be more consistent.

Anyway, let’s finish up this Shabbaton.

So, the Saturday night activity was speed dating. Contrary to the commenter to the previous post, speed dating is really not my thing. I feel that after a whole Shabbos of mingling and round robins, everyone has had enough time to interact with the people that they want to without having every single person shoved into their faces. I also think it’s cute that the shadchanim go around the room as well. I did find it easier to talk to a shadchan for 90 seconds than a girl though. I have to admit, I didn’t stay for the whole adventure, which seemed to exhaust everyone. The speed dating didn’t wrap up until midnight!

Then, we proceeded to yet ANOTHER mingling session, the Melave Malka. I think at this point, most people were just too tuckered out to really get anything going, although I did notice a few couples getting their talk on. Somehow I still managed to go to bed at 2 AM (I know, I’m talented.)

Sunday morning brought a pretty decent breakfast (food wise that is) and some leftover sleep-deprived (you guessed it…) mingling. Then, we went home.

The end.

Bottom line, I think the Shabbaton was a great event, even if I didn’t find anyone personally. It was a great networking opportunity for all. Unfortunately, some guys did more business networking than the kind they were supposed to be doing. At the least, Klal Yisroel got 10,000 first dates out of the way.

I really think it’s important, though, for girls to feel they have the same power as guys for at least one weekend. During the Shabbaton, there were no lists, no checking things out for weeks on end, just guys and girls naturally (as natural as Frum guys/girls can be) interacting. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see a few engagements from this event a couple of months from now.

So, I had a good time and am pleased that I went, even though the girls there were not for me (I think, unless I’m just being closed minded :- )

I would encourage available guys to go on the next one (whenever that is.) I hope I don’t have to go (again), but even if I’m available, I don’t think I can be a “three-peater.” We’ll see.

Maybe next time we can delve into the secret process of how guys actually choose which pretty, funny, smart girl to go out with off of their long lists of pretty, funny, smart girls…

Happy Tryptophan Day

2006-11-23T23:06:00.000-05:00

Happy Tryptophan Day to all!

Yes, I had turkey (with all the trimmings).
I am Modox after all.
I recommend reading this to summarize all the Shitos regarding today.

http://www.tfdixie.com/special/thanksg.htm

It sounds to me that turkey is fine as long as you don't sing Thanksgiving zemiros and where a hat or anything like that.

Moving on, I know that the last post sounded a little sad, but this really is a crisis.
I really think that attitudes have to be changed.

I'm still planning on finishing the series on the Shabbaton some time this weekend, but let me just say one quick thing.
The saturday night activity on the Shabbaton was speed dating, and it's just not my thing.
I think we created enough initial contact between the round robins and all the mingling "sessions" on Shabbos that a formal meeting of Every Single Girl was not necessary.

I'll have more on this over the weekend.

For now, Good Shabbos to all.

Answers anyone?

2006-11-20T15:56:00.000-05:00

Before we finish the series on the singles' weekend, something else came to me.
I've been reading a blog by a 34 year old Orthodox woman who has never been married.
http://shomernegiah.blogspot.com
Some of her writing just wants to make me cry. Her pain and frustration is real. I mean, I'm only 23!
Who am I to be writing about the Shidduch Crisis?

I mean this woman has a real fear that she will never get married. That is just terrible.

I really think the only way to fix this problem is by changing the mindsets of everyone involved.

Parents.

Guys.

Girls.

Rebbeim.

Everyone.

Again, i don't profess to have the answers, but something has to give.
In my opinion, solving the Jewish world's problems (and boy are there many) begins with creating wholesome loving Jewish homes.

There has to be an answer.

I'm listening...

The Singles' Weekend - Part 2b, Friday night con'd

2006-11-17T12:46:00.000-05:00

First, to respond to my anon commenter- I appreciate the good thoughts. I think that at this time, the best way to start to solve the SC is by people changing their thinking about how shidduch dating has to occur. I think if people would maybe take a little bit of a more relaxed attitude, it would go along way. Obviously the point of going out in the Frum world is to find a suitable marriage partner, but that kind of thinking is just a little too heavy for a first date in my opinion. People should just try to have a good time with their date for the first date or two, and then see where it goes. As shidduch daters’ mindsets change, things just might get a little easier. That and sending all parent off to a remote island for a year or two ;-)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Where were we?

Oh yeah, the Round Robins!

I personally am a big fan of round robins. The way the Shabbaton folks executed these were to have all participants go to their original tables after dinner. They then had all the guys from a table move to the next one while the girls and their designated couple stayed put. Each table was given 3-4 min to introduce themselves, and then a question was posed to the room for discussion. Each table had about 6-7 min total, then the guys rotated throughout the dining room. The whole process took two seperate hour and a half sessions.

I think this is a very good way for everyone to meet everyone. The seven minutes gives everyone enough time to articulate their opinions and create a little interaction between the groups. The only problem is that the interaction is very dependant on the specific groups of guys that are formed. I was lucky to be with a fun group, so we just went around table-to-table having a good time. The problem is if you have one or two dominant players and one or two quiet ones, sometimes the quiet guys / girls can get shut out. That’s why the success of a round robin is also very dependant on the married couples manning the tables. When a question posed to the room is uninteresting, it’s their job to come up with a different topic of discussion. When a quiet guy / girl is not getting involved, it’s their job to involve him / her.

I think overall the couples did a pretty good job of accomplishing those two goals; some were obviously better than the others.

Ok then, so the round robins were a success. We then moved on to informal “mingling.”
In my opinion, the most important factor for a successful “mingling session” is the layout of the room. And this particular lay out worked very well. There was a big area for guys and girls just milling about, but it was right next to the dining room itself. This created a natural flow to things. If a guy and girl wanted to couple off, they could just walk over a few feet and sit at a table without feeling they had left everyone else. This helped to alleviate the pressure of talking to someone “right away” on Friday night.

Mingling wrapped up at around 2 AM (no, this was not the week to catch up on your sleep!) I personally didn’t hit it off with any girls on Friday night, but I had whom to talk to (guys and girls).

Davening in the morning was pretty uneventful (good breakfast before hand; that’s how you can tell who’s REALLY religious or not – by the tally at breakfast). We then moved on to Kiddush and finished off the round robins from the night before.

After lunch came…The Shabbos Walks

Stay tuned.

Good Shabbos to all.

Don't worry, the juicy stuff is coming soon

2006-11-16T12:03:00.000-05:00

Happy lunchtime to all my (5? 6?) loyal readers.

I now realize that I won't be able to post every day, but I hope I'll be able to post at least 3-4 times a week.

Anyway, I know you're all waiting for the sordid details from last week's Shabbaton; they're coming soon.

Up next will be the round robins (yea!), then the rest of the Shabbos.

Hopefully next week we'll be able to get back down to business and solve the SC all by our selves. Wouldn't that make for a great book someday - how a blogger and his (5? 6? 7?!) loyal readers solved one of the biggest crises to have ever occurred in the known history of the world.

Again, sordid details coming shortly.

The Singles' Weekend - Part 2a, Friday night

2006-11-14T17:32:00.000-05:00

So where were we?

Oh yeah, Friday night.

After everyone checked in (which was not an easy task as Shabbos was 4:30 and most people didn’t arrive until 3:45 because of, you know, JOBS) and got ready for Shabbos (“is this tie going to get me the girls or this one? This one? Ok, let’s go daven now”), we headed down to the makeshift shul. I don’t really think there was much equality going on there, because the women’s side had much more room; so much so that men just started drifting there not to look at girls, but just so they could breathe.

Then came dinner. The tables were pre-arranged based on a number of qualifiers. Four girls and four guys per table.

Were you expecting any more qualifiers than that? Sorry.

Anyway, each table had a designated couple for “facilitating”, which is a good idea. We had a nice meal and everyone went around the table introducing themselves. The organizers of the event even borrowed a long-standing UWS tradition and put a kind of game on the table so that everyone could get involved. Not as personal as a traditional UWS game (“if you were an animal, what kind would you be?”), but it got people talking.

We then had a pretty good shiur about, you know, dating, then moved on to the main event of the weekend – the round robins!

More to come soon – I know, I know, the wait is killing me too.

The Singles' Weekend - Part 1

2006-11-13T17:31:00.000-05:00

Yes. I went to a singles weekend this past Shabbos.

I’m not really that old or desperate, but I figured it would be a good experience. And despite not really coming away with any solid dating prospects, I think I accomplished my goal.

Before we get into the nitty gritty details of the Shabbaton, I just want to open with my general impressions.

One of the biggest reasons for the current SC (in my opinion) is that guys and girls don’t have realistic views on dating and what to expect out of potential marriage partners. I will deal with all of the girls’ problems in a different post; but let’s talk about the guys’ problems for a second.

I think one of the biggest problems with guys and dating is the list. If you’re a “frum” guy and you haven’t been arrested for at least a year, you probably have a list of 20 – 30 beautiful size 2 “ST/OT/PT” s that you can go out with. This instills a false sense of entitlement in a guy. Guys go out looking to only do one thing – not “settling”.
I think this is a very unhealthy way to approach dating, and I’m a guy.

That’s why I think the best part of the Shabbaton is that there is a 1:1 guy: girl ratio. That atmosphere returns the dating world to the “natural order” – guys chasing after girls. Maybe I’m just a hopeless romantic, but I think that dating should be all about a guy “winning the heart” of a girl, and that’s just not going to happen if a guy with his list just walks around with a certain sense of entitlement all day. That’s why I give a lot of credit to all the guys who went; it wasn’t because they were desperate, it was because they felt they needed to do some chasing for a change.

Another benefit of the Shabbaton was the potential amount of bad first dates it saved. Think about it…100 guys times 100 girls equals 10,000 initial meetings!
Not that every one of the participants would go out with each other normally, but people certainly saved a lot of time on future dates which would have gone nowhere. And I think the participants (mostly) had the right approach. This kind of an event really can’t turn personal. You go over and talk to someone of the opposite gender for a few minutes; if there’s something there, the two of you can go somewhere quiet to talk. If not, you just move on, no hard feelings. The problem is that it can turn a little too business-like. Additionally, looks play too big of a role at a Shabbaton like this. The only thing most people end up doing at this kind of event is make a first impression – so the pressure is on to make a good one. It sounds like I’ve just contradicted myself, I know, but I think that overall, the experience I had was positive and I really think much good will come out of this past weekend.

So much for the introduction…next time a real recap and maybe some good stories ;-)

Don't worry, on second thought, there aren't that many good guys after all

2006-11-10T12:15:00.000-05:00

I want to answer some of the insightful comments to the previous post.

First of all, whether you want to believe me or not, there was a typo in the previous post. I meant to say that there are more good girls than good guys. I think that changes things a little. That being the case, let’s address some of the comments.

To answer the first anon – I don’t have specific data to back up my assertion that there are more good girls than good guys (although it’s a study I would really like to do someday). This is just something I’ve observed. Anecdotally, I notice that all my male friends have lists of girls without trying, and my sister/cousins/their friends have to ask around to find a date. Last time I was just trying to find a reason for that.
Secondly, we can quibble on my specific calculations, but I think the point is still valid. Remember, I only gave the poor guy Five hours a night for sleep!
Any number in my calculation below that one feels is inflated can just re-asses it to the guy’s sleep time and the calculation makes sense.

Now, I’m not trying to say that it’s easier being a good girl than a good guy, just that maybe girls are slightly unrealistic in their expectations. It’s hard for every guy to be pulling in a decent salary and become a Talmud Chacham (I don’t even want to touch the learning for a few years after marriage thing yet).

This is clearly from a guy’s perspective, but it just seems that all girls want the same tachlis functionality in a guy (i.e., everything) and the only difference in what their looking for lies in the esoteric (hashkafa and what not). I think girls need to realize that not all guys are cut out for everything. Some guys are meant to sit and learn (although that number is far less then what one currently sees). Some guys are super chesed guys. Some guys just want to become rich so they can support someone else’s learning. I am not, however, saying that guys don’t have a daily obligation to learn (I think they do), but there are different levels for different people.

And to anon 2 – I need to blog just to get my thoughts out. Don’t worry, my blogging comes out of my “personal” 50 minutes a day, not my learning time ;-)

I pretty much agree with everything that Bigsister said; despite the fact that it all started out based on a typo in my post. There really are a lot of guys and girls out there in the shidduch world who probably aren’t ready to start dating. They feel they have to though, because otherwise they think they’ll just get lost in the shuffle if they wait a few years to date. That’s a discussion for another time though.

Good news is I am going to be solving all of the world’s shidduch problems this Shabbos, as I will be going to a Single’s Weekend!

Yes, you heard right, a SINGLE’S WEEKEND!!!

There will be a full report coming up next week.

For now, I just want to leave you with a Posuk from this week’s Parsha which I feel is one of the most important Pisukim in the Torah, especially for the marriage minded out there,

12 And G-d said unto Abraham: 'Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah saith unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall seed be called to thee.

Guys – just listen to what the women have to say, it’s practically a Mitzvah ;-)

Good Shabbos to all

Whose fault is it really?

2006-11-08T13:08:00.000-05:00

The guys or the girls?

As my commenter kingnimrod1 claims, girls are not of the marriage mind set. Even if this were true, would that help solve the SC?

It seems to me that guys don’t have a problem committing; girls do. If girls decided to stop taking guys for “a ride” and commit earlier in the dating process that would just take guys off the market quicker. Then there would be even fewer guys for the thousands of Great Girls out there to pin their hopes on. Unfortunately, it really does seem to be a numbers issue. Every year, another class of girls graduate from seminary who are “ready” and willing to date; guys don’t follow suit until at least two years later.

Girls get “older”, guys get “more seasoned”.

I know, I know, you’ve all heard this before.

So what’s the solution?

Recently, there’s been a movement (if you will) encouraging guys to date / marry older girls. This is not a bad idea, but it doesn’t solve the real problem.

There just seems to be more “good” girls than “good” guys.

I think the root of that problem lies with the definition of a “good” guy and a “good” girl.

Take any random girl off of the street in front of Stern or Touro and ask her what she’s looking for in a husband. She’ll most likely respond the following:

“Well, he should have a good parnassa but he should also be Machshiv Torah, but he should also care about our (future) family, but he should also be very Chesed Oriented, but he should also have time to spend with his parents and mine, and in general, just be A Good Boy, you know?”

OK, now let’s do some math.

1. Work = 45 hours/week (if you’re lucky and Hashem loves you)
2. Commuting 2 hours a day * 5 = 10 hours/week
3. Two hours night seder * 6 days a week = 12 hours/week
4. Minyan 2 hours a day * 6 days a week = 12 hours/week
5. Five hours/week for chessed
6. Two hours/week for your parents and five hours/week for hers = seven hours/week
7. Oh yeah, Shabbos = 25 hours/week
8. Two hours a day for your wife * 6 days a week = 12 hours/week
9. One hour a day for your kids * 6 days a week = 6 hours/week
10. Maybe 50 min a day for personal things (like eating and going to the bathroom) * 6 days a week = 5 hours/week
11. Oh yeah, SLEEP! How about 5 hours a night * 6 days = 30 hours/week

Total hours in a week = 168
Total hours needed per week to be a Good Boy = 169

So now I’m thinking, maybe the SC problems begin with the definitions?

And one more thing before we get going...

2006-11-02T11:13:00.000-05:00

A few more introductory remarks.

I am not here to share personal stories about my dating life. I want to raise issues on dating that I feel are important and hopefully spur healthy debate in the comments. If anyone is interested in sharing a good dating story, my friend just started a site for that specific purpose. Check it out on the sidebar. I've also linked to Only Simchas on the sidebar, because at the end of the day, that's what this is all about, right? ;-)

I think things here should stay as anonymous as possible. I really hope we can get both the male and female perspective on these issues. Therefore, I will allow anonymous comments, but please feel free to identify yourself as guy or gal if you so choose.

The SC, and I don't mean South California

2006-11-01T15:07:00.000-05:00

Well, I’ve got my first “thought”.

Let’s talk about the Shidduch Crisis.

As some of you know, I refer to the Jewish Press as the “Shidduch Press.”
The paper does have a few pieces on Israel and Torah and whatnot, but its main thrust is clearly discussion on the Shidduch Crisis. Let’s face it; any crisis makes for good copy, and the Shidduch Crisis (I think we’re going to start calling it SC from now on) is as good a crisis as any other to hook in readers.

Most Friday nights, after the rest of my family is finished with the paper, I jump immediately into the middle of the Shidduch Press. There we find various experts taking letters from readers lamenting how they’re child is the poster child for the SC.

The problem is, that despite experts tackling this issue week after week, we’re still in the crisis. I’m not saying I have a solution, mind you, I’m just saying…

We’ll leave the “Shadchan” magazine (yes there actually is such a thing, I have it in my house) for another time.

My question is, who actually is in this crisis?

Is it just young adults of the female persuasion, or are guys in it too?

Even if guys don’t have problems getting dates, they still have to go out with the girls who live with the SC over their heads daily; maybe that’s how they get affected?

And now for my big thought…

To paraphrase an economic term I heard somewhere, “A recession is when your neighbor is out of a job, a depression is when you’re out of a job.”

Does this mean if you’re sister can’t get a date, it’s a shidduch crisis; but if you’re friend’s sister can’t get a date, it’s only a shidduch “problem”?

Welcome

2006-11-01T14:14:00.000-05:00

Hi. I'm a Shidduch dater.

I've been in the proverbial "Parsha" since this past February.

Since then, I’ve had a lot of thoughts and opinions on shidduch dating which I’ve been sharing with anyone willing to listen to me.

This is what I’ll be doing here.

This is not, nor will it become, my personal profile.

I am going to try to be as objective as possible, although my past dating experiences have greatly shaped my views on this topic.

I have a lot of stuff I want to say right away, but then this blog will be done with in a week.

Commenting is encouraged, but please play nice.

Welcome to Modern Orthodox Machmir Blog.

More to come shortly